May 23, 2011
Mecca Donna
Begs the question when does the stigma (bad) outweigh the good. Is the bigger objective to be in niqaab or is the bigger objective to have people understand this religion and become educated and tolerate of Islam in just hijab.
Mecca Donna
on one hand I think...the Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years. The hikmah in that is change is a process. We cant throw people in the deep in and expect them to swim. Niqab is the highest level...they dont even understand hijab...
Mecca Donna
Then I think of how the Prophet didnt rebuild the Kaba for the sake of new converts and minds. New ideas makes the human mind a bit fragile...and we are commanded to take it easy and not overburden the people..
Mecca Donna
Then there is a side of me that says..just stand. Just...STAND. Don't bow to what they think is right. The Prophet met people in high society and came as he was..and never was apologetic (although very gentle, and wise) about what he came with.
Mecca Donna
I dont know why but taking off my niqab to me feels like assimilation..and that's not even logical. Because full hijab (even without niqab) is not assimilation
Mecca Donna
I love my niqab and its evidently difficult to part with it.. I need to think about the good and the bad..and I wont
Mecca Donna
*wont be able to part with it completely. I just need to be patient in this decision making*
Shakera Healy
may Allah make this decision easy on you ameen :)
Couture Na'ilah Muhammad
My advise to u sis is to stand in the third part of the night and make Istikar
Brooke Benoit
Like this whole thread.
Munir Hanifa
Asa sister, All deeds are judged on intention. Pray in the last third of the night and ask Allah(swt) to guide you to the decision that is most pleasing to Him, and ask him to strengthen you against your own vain desires. I don't see how you could go wrong that way.
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
pray isitkhara...
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
but the first two points you made on this were poppin',
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
u started killin me with all that STAND STAND STAND stuff tho lol
Mecca Donna
I do be poppin, tho' Sheikh. It's what I do.
Mecca Donna
Psh.. Im the stand up type, not the type that fall. What did u expect?
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
i know u stand up, that ish scare away people..(mind fragile).. i say pray istikhara , and do them first two points..
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
plus the hikma and kindness in the third point.
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
cut the stand up for facebook
Mecca Donna
hell naw
Kidr Amari
Salaamun alalikum Sister Mecca I know we haven't talked before much but if you don't mind for me to add a bit of my thoughts to this question you have about niqaab if you haven't been on my page I'll tell you honestly Allah doesn't say anything about Niqaab or Hijab being a part of Al Islam. If you going to wear the Hijab or Niqaab wear it because you like it not because you think it's in the Qur'an to do so. A lot of Muslims today follow man made books called Hadith that were written over 250 years AFTER the death of the Prophet Muhammad.
Then they take to these so called Scholars which doesn't have anything to do with Al Islam. There is no clergy in the deen. If you truly want to follow the Messenger then follow the Qur'an alone, read it thoroughly for yourself. The best way to practice Islam is to be free from putting yourself in a box. Hikma comes from studying the Qur'an and applying to the best of your ability. Wearing Hijab and Niqaab should be because you like it not believing it plays a part of being modest, or believing its the highest level to having faith. This is prone to looking at the outside instead of the inside and this isn't the message of the Qur'an.
In Surah 2:177 Allah says, "Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves;"
Allah clearly tells us it's not about outward actions of turning towards the east or the west but true righteousness is believing in what Allah tells us to believe in and doing righteous deeds.
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
@kidr Whaaaaaaaaaaaat are you talking about
Kidr Amari
Ahmad, I believe I have made myself clear.
Mecca Donna
Kidr Alaikum salaam. If you're going to say that, then quote the surah's about men and women's dress. And explain the ayat which uses the terminology jilbab (actually the plural). NO BODY RESPOND TO HIM...let him bring the proof of his speech.
Mecca Donna
You cant tell me there's no basis and then leave the basis out! LOL..that surah you posted isnt relevant to this thread. Bring your proof if you are truthful...and that is our right over you to ask. Produce it. We'll wait.
Kidr Amari
Well, Mecca, no problem Allah tells us to verify all information we receive in Surah 17:36.
Allah has created human beings outer appearance to be pleasing to behold so this applies to both men and women.
Allah says,
"(People), do you not see how Allah has made what is in the heavens and the earth useful to you, and has lavished His blessings on you both outwardly and inwardly?" (Qur'an 31:20)
In another verse:
"Children of Adam, take your adornment / pleasantness to every Mosque." (Qur'an 7:31)
Where "Children of Adam" includes both men and women. This humanly pleasantness in everyone Allah speaks of is something for us to thank Allah by and appreciate in all human beings, both men and women.
The word "hijab" is never used in the Qur'an in the context of women's dress. This word used only in its general meaning of "barrier" in other contexts, but never in women's dress or modesty, yet it has developed completely unique applications among the majority of Muslims who follow Hadith/Sunnah outside of the Qur'an.
-----> There is no use of the word 'hijab' <------ in terms of women's dress in the Qur'an.
One part of a verse of the Qur'an has been attempted to be shown to command the covering of hair.
This is the 31st verse of Surah An-Nur quoted as follows:
وَقُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ (Qur'an 24:31)
"Tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they shall not flaunt their beauty except for what appears (naturally) from it, and let them put forth 'bikhumurihinnatheir' covers over their cleavage" (Qur'an 24:31)
Mecca, see the portion used to mean cover the hair is the underlined portion (وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِن َّ ). It should be understood that the ordainment, or the commandment here is for a believing woman to cover her cleavage or rather her bosom.
It is not commanding her to cover her hair. The word "hair" does not appear in the Arabic. The Arabic word translated as "covers" (خُمُرْ), should be translated with due regards to several factors. These include:
(1) The logical understanding on the nature in which Allah created the human head (ears need unobstructed passage for optimal performance, and hair on head is part of "natural" human pleasantness {more later}).
(2) The Arabic root for the word, shares meanings with more general "covering" or "concealment" and not just headscarf.
(3) The immediate context within the verse, which is ordering the covering of the cleavage only, with no mention of hair (indicating the ordainment is not in the type of apparatus used, but in the covering of low neck-line). Even if it means 'headscarves' worn at the time, the command is not in the type of clothing used to cover the cleavage (headscarf), but to cover the cleavage. The usage of the word is determined by the readily available method at that instance, variable by other means in other parts of the world, or by any means such as a higher neck dress.
(4) Men tend to cover all their chest and women reduce their neck-line in society in order to show-off feminine grace. Therefore, in order to tackle the common habit, a commandment to cover the cleavage area is a strong logical reason for the verse than the hair.
Therefore, it makes perfect sense to conclude that the intention of "وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِن َّ / and let them put forth their covers over their cleavage" is to order believing women to ensure the cleavage area is covered and not the hair.
The Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (24:31), but the Arabic words for
1) HEAD, (RAAS) or
2) HAIR, (SHAAR)
Again if you throughly study the ayats of Allah these words are NOT in the verse. The commandment in the verse is clear - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars and most of the translators is clear by claiming- cover your head or hair.
Mecca Donna
I'm going to give you a pass on that copy and paste job you did here. I'll ask you AGAIN..produce the ayats that mention the women's dress. Produce the one that mentions jilbab and khimar. And do it quickly. Because you're losing credibility on this thread with me FAST. You sound exactly like someone who swears to be a Quranist but can not/ has not/ will not read the QUran in whole. The word hijab does not mean headscarf it is a comprehensive term. The term used in Quran is very specific. We use hijab to address the entire CONCEPT of modest covering for men AND women. Now produce what is asked of you. It's imperative that you not leave it out if you want to be taken seriously.
S van Alphen
* holding my breath*
Kidr Amari
Copy and paste ah you limiting my intelligence like I don't have any independent thought at all I mean you don't know me to make an assumption. The Arabic word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as "Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.
Allah tells us to verify in Surah 17:36 so you can verify this for yourself just get your Qur'an if you know Arabic even verify this please.
Mecca I'm not a Quranist I'm a Muslim who follows Qur'an alone no doubt. Where is it in Qur'an that Hijab means to cover the head I'm not trying to argue of course just bringing you the Bayyinat (Clear Evidence).
وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُوْلِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَى عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاء وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ وَتُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden that ye may attain Bliss." Surah 24:31
Waqul lilmuminati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw abaihinna aw abai buAAoolatihinna aw abnaihinna aw abnai buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw banee ikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisaihinna aw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi alttabiAAeena ghayri olee alirbati mina alrrijali awi alttifli allatheena lam yathharoo AAala AAawrati alnnisai wala yadribna biarjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna watooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuha almuminoona laAAallakum tuflihoona
You said the word Hijab means head scarf please produce the ayat from Al Qur'an. Where is Hijab in this ayat?
Mecca, yes a women's hair is part of 'zeena' / beauty, it is part of which 'naturally appears' and does not have to be covered if so we should hae a Ayat in Qur'an commanding the women to do so.
It is part of the exception in the portion وَلا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا , "they shall not flaunt their zeena/beauty 'except' for what (naturally) appears from it".
S van Alphen
A muslim that follows Quran allone is not a Muslim to begin with
S van Alphen
The proof is in the Quran itself!
Kidr Amari
HIJAB n.m:.-veil, curtain
7:46 between them is a veil
17:45 between thee, and those who do not believe in the world to come, a curtain
19:17 she took a veil apart from them
33:53 ask them from behind a curtain
38:32 until the sun was hidden behind the veil
41:5 between us and thee there is a veil
42:51 God should speak to him, excepi by revelation, or from behind a veil
Also from the above references please verify again does Hijab mean the Hijab you mean to speak of according to the Quranic ayats.
Mecca Donna
@Kidr I did NOT say hijab means headscarf. YOU DID. And youre not doing what Im asking you to do.
Mecca Donna
@Kidr FINE since you want to get hung up on the word "hijab" then run along and find the word Khimar in the Quran..bring it back here. Copy and paste it. Then find the plural of the word jilbab and bring it back here and copy and past that. After you have successfully done that, we'll discuss this entire argument in context..including what you've already posted.
Mecca Donna
@kidr I could give you the answer, but that defeats the purpose. Now verify what I'm telling you... and bring the evidence asked. Thank you
Mecca Donna
@Kidr If you CAN NOT or will not in your next response then you've discredited yourself and will be removed from this page and your comments as well. I dont automatically do these things when people dont agree with me (hey that's the way of the world.) but if you're selectively choosing this or that in an effort to edify your opinion and not presenting the evidence COMPLETELY, then I do not and will not allow that at all.
Kidr Amari
Ok,insha Allah, well "Khimar" is an Arabic word that is in the Quran in 24:31 as 'bikhumurihinna' now the thing is this Arabic word that means, cover, any cover, it can be a curtain which can be used as a Khimar also a long dress can be used as a Khimar, a table cloth that covers the top of a table is a Khimar, a blanket can be used as a Khimar..etc.
I'm not new to this Mecca, Allah tells us clearly to study the Qur'an throughly and not let others interpret it for us. The word KHAMRA is used for intoxicant in Arabic has the same root with Khimar, because both covers, the Khimar covers can be a window, a body, a table . . . at the same time KHAMRA bacially covers the state of mind intoxicants.
Unfortunately because of the translators and their being highly influenced by Hadith translate the word as ------> VEIL <------ and this is what misleads most people to believe that this verse is advocating the covering of the head which you will find in numerous translations of the Qur'an.
Kidr Amari
KHUMUR n.m. (pi. of khimr)-veils reference: 24:31-- let them cast their veils over their bosoms
Mecca Donna
Just produce the other one with jilbab. Hurry. My patience is running thin with you...
Kidr Amari
First you talked about Hijab, then Khimar and now Jilbab.
Kidr Amari
Alhumduillah, Sabr is most befitting for us Allah tells us to invite to His ways with beautiful preaching and using Hikmah why the impatience I'm trying my best to present to you the best way I know producing the evidence but you keep asking questions are you even reading my messages.
Kidr Amari
ج ل ب
Surah 33:59 jalābībihinna their outer garments.
The root to Jalaba is
1) Loose outer covering
2) Over-garment
3) Women's gown
4) Smock
5) Large outer covering worn by women
6) Outer cloak
6) Women's outer wrapping garment
All I'm saying Mecca is that I been down this road before and if you truly want to understand Allah's words you should study the Qur'an for yourself. I'm not here to start an argument just bring some light and a intelligent discussion insha Allah, not here to convince you not to wear Hijab or Khimar or Niqaab if this is what your heart feels then follow your heart. I'm just here as a friend saw your status and I responded. I'm a Muslim I don't belong to any sects Sunni, Salafi, Shite, Quranist, Submitters who follow Rashad Khalifah...and numerous others. I'm just a Muslim who has done the research and I have found out that what we are being told is not all the truth about Qur'an. If you want to continue this discussion please ask questions and then allow me to ask after I have presented some evidence.
Other Muslims may want to comment on why I don't follow Hadith/Sunnah books we can discuss this too insha Allah, if you allow it on your page if not they can add me or even come to my group and we can discuss it all day long insha Allah. I'm always up for a nice respectful discussion.
"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 17:36
So, Please VERIFY for yourself.
Kidr Amari
Most of what Muslims wear today calling it Hijab, Khimar is from traditional Hadith not from Qur'an.
Mecca Donna
Scroll up. I BEEN asked you for both. Do it or not. Your choice
Kidr Amari
Might I mention Mecca, in Surah 33:59 Arabic word 'jalābībihinn' refers to outer garment women may use to cover in a modest way that lends oneself to be recognized and not harassed out in the public eye.
In modern terms of course the jilbab is commonly understood to mean loose fitting clothing and, more specifically, a long loose dress or overcoat worn by many Muslim women today. Yet, the focus of the ayat in Surah 33:59 is on the result and this as I understand it to avoid harassment and preserving your dignity however it is not on the details of the actual article of clothing.
The Best garment is in Surah 7:26
"O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD's signs, that they may take heed."
Kidr Amari
There is a big difference from ----> Hijab <---- the way the Qur'an present it and the way the Hadith presents it.
End of thread she deleted me.....but other comments that followed and I can't respond back are:
Najmah Bint Burton
Kidr, I understand what you are "trying" to display however it doesn't fall in line with what is historically sound in regards to the ayat that were revealed, during the time it was revealed, what the "dress" of the women were at the time it was revealed and why it was revealed. All of these things are lacking in your argument. In regards to what our dear sister, Mecca Donna is asking for... I'll try and give you a small hint, look in Surah Ahzab for the answer.
My Response:
How would would know from a historical stand point with regard to the ayat that was revealed that is like saying that ee cannot understand the Qur’an until or unless we know the "Asbaab ul Nuzul", i.e. the causes of revelation or the history attributed to the Qur’anic verses which inform us why a certain verse was revealed, and its historical background and how will we know this without studying baseless Hadith. Najmah Bint Burton
If you want to go into the roots of the word, then you also must develop an understanding for the linguistical, sharia and technical meanings. Due to the richness of the arabic language we initially look at the root of each word and understand its specific meanings. The root of khimaar is khaa meem raa, which as you stated means cover. However there are other root combinations that also mean cover... especially in the terms where you are trying to use them i.e, seen taa raa - cover, ghayn sheen waw - cover and even haa jeem baa - cover. Look at the simple root of kaaf, taa, baa or alif jeem raa and the different usages of noun, verb and adjective unrelated and interrelated with it.
My Response:
Now when she said we must develop an understanding for the linquistical, sharia and technical meaning I want to know what 'Sharia' is she referring to?
According to
EDUCATIONAL ADDENDUM:
UNDERSTANDING YOUR RIGHTS
Quote: The Islamic law, known as the shari 'ah, is the framework of ultimate reality and the ethical guidance that Muslim scholars have derived from the direct Revelation of Allah to man. Although Allah reveals the pattern of ultimate truth indirectly through the workings of the physical universe and in the observable nature of man, the ultimate source of knowledge about both physical and metaphysical reality - and therefore the ultimate source of the shari'ah - is the Qur'an. This divine text was revealed directly in human language to the Prophet Muhammad (saws), and is exemplified in the sunnah, which reports the Prophet's understanding of this Final Revelation as shown through his words and deeds.~~End of quote
Any Muslim who follow Hadith/Sunnah outside of the Qur'an will say that Sharia is based from Qur'an and Sunnah which indicates that there is no true Shariah at all because it has been corrupted with baseless Hadith. The only Hukm (law) that we are suppose to take from is Al Qur'an alone and not from baseless Hadith that were written over 250 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad.
Najmah Bint Burton
However Allah did not use those terms to mean cover, khumur was used in the ayat of commandiing hijab (Surah an Nr). So why is this? Because historically during the "time" of the Prophet it was recognized that khimar was referring to the scarf regularly worn by the women across their heads. The women also wore a garment known as the gitara which was a undercap to protect the khimar from the oils of the head. Even more so, al Hakeem used the "hinna" at the end of khimar denotes possession or pertaining to person with a preposition. In the ayat, Allaah says: وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ wa liydribna bikhumurihinna 3la juyubihinna - wa liydribna: HOLD IN PLACE/sew/draw together -bi khumurihinna: THEIR (pl) khumur (something already in their possession) -3la juyubihinnah: over THEIR juyub. By all definitions of the menaing including historical references the khimar is something that was used to cover the woman's head. The pre-Islamic Arabia women would wear scarves over their head and drape them loosely around them or behind them. When the ayat was revealed the women (in hadeeth) tore at their garments to cover themselves. Even without hadeeth however we can look at the cultural and historical proofs. The women wore khumur on their heads and post-Islam Arabia they covered their bosoms (and/or faces) in addition to the head being covered by the cloth.The women would not have been ABLE to draw their khumur over themselves if it was not ALREADY present on their heads.
My Response:
Again, with sound reason it's clear where Najmah is basing her understanding of khimar from and its from those who came up interpreting the Qur'an to support Hadith and her references only proves the point. She says historically during the "time" of the Prophet it was recognized that khimar was referring to the scarf regularly worn by the women across their heads. Again, how do we check the references for this through Hadith and not from Qur'an.
See the problem with this is that the Qur’an is not meant to be a book whose injunctions are restricted to time and space. The Qur'an clearly gives immutable principles which are to be applicable in all times and eras. To suggest that the Qur’an is in need of the historical tales dominant in certain time of history for its exegesis is to limit the Qur’an to just one particular era and make it dependent on conjecture.
Whereas Allah opposes this view when He states that His Book is i.e. " A reminder to all the nations" (81:27) and "Guidance for all mankind" (2:185), thus for all humanity of all times and all locations, the divine principles for formation and reformation of society will be contained in Al-Qur’an. Whenever (Mankind) will exist, the Qur’an will provide it with divine values. See whatever has been narrated in the Qur’an, even the reminders of previous nations and messengers, they are not given ashistorical tales, but they teach us some principles, and we have to consider the whole of the Qur’an to be guidance and light for the times we live in, and seek the solutions to our present day problems from the divine injunctions, instead of digging up the historical tales that are attributed to the past and then place the Book of Allah under their subjugation.
We are reminded about this aspect in Surah Yusuf:
"In their (all the previous messengers mentioned in the Quran) narratives there is certainly a lesson for people of understanding. It is not a tale which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe." (12:111)
"And all we relate to you of the accounts of the messengers is to strengthen your heart therewith; and in this has come to you the truth and an admonition, and a reminder to the believers." (11:120)
In the Qur'an all the narrated examples of the messengers and previous generations are given in the Qur’an for a reason and they are not presented to us as historical tales, guesswork, hearsay but as divine guidance and moral lessons.
Allah has identified that His Book is guidance for all times and applicable in all eras, He also informs us about certain people those who believe that historical tales or Hadith or "Asbaab ul Nuzul", i.e.the causes of revelation or the history attributed to the Qur’anic verses which inform us why a certain verse was revealed who will always consider the Qur’an to be something restricted to history and not to be understood in the present times:
"Undoubtedly Allah doth know what they conceal and what they reveal: verily He loveth not the arrogant. When it is said to them What is it that your Sustainer has revealed? they say Tales of the ancients!" (16:23-24)
And,
"Heed not the type of despicable men - ready with oaths. A slanderer going about with calumnies.(Habitually) hindering (all) good transgressing beyond bounds deep in sin. Violent (and cruel) - with all that base-born - Because he possesses wealth and (numerous) sons. When to him are rehearsed Our Signs Tales of the ancients he cries!" (68:10-15)
Najmah Bint Burton
Jayb (pl. Juyub) has been interpreted by many of the shuyook to mean not just the bosom but the "arch"or neckline area or "fold"- an opening with two sides or pocket (when Allaah was speaking to Musa, alayhis salaam). It is impossible to negate the meaning of khimar to mean headcovering in addition to its other meanings and contextually what its meaning was determined. The Muslim Women were to not expose the neck, as many Arab women did in imitation of the jewish/christian women during that era but to conceal what was exposed of their beauty per the commandment of Allah in the Quran:
(وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا
Wa qul li al-muminaat yaghdudna min absarihinna wa yahfazna furujahunna wa laa yubdina zenatahunna illa maa zahara min haa)
"And say to the believing women to lower their gazes and to guard their private parts and not to display their adornment except what is apparent of it."
This part of the ayat is very important because this commandment is specifically for the BELIEVING women (al muminaat) to separate themselves apart fromo the disbelieving women not only in their actions but also in their DRESS. There is dispute about what is meant by "what is apparent" whether that refers to hands/face or the eyes, so those supporting the position of niqab use this part of the ayat) addition to the "jayb" (pl juyub, several areas with openings that have two sides mouth, eyes, ears, etc) they determine that the entire of the body is what is apparent and only those who are "exceptions" can see this displayed beauty of the woman. And of course the applicaton of hinna implies what is the "person"
As Mecca Donna has stated hijaab in no way just implies as a headscarf worn by women, but refers to the entire physical hujub and display externally, in addition to the spiritual/mental hijaab each Muslim is required to practice internally.
My Response:
This is what the Muslims who follows Hadith says about the Arabic word "khimar".
They say:
"The authorities on classical Arabic have defined the word "khimar" as a HEADCOVERING. For instance the dictionary Aqrab al-Mawarid defines the word "khimar" as, "All such pieces of cloth which are used to cover the head. It is a piece of cloth which is used by a woman to cover her head". The great scholar Imam Abu'l-Fida ibn Kathir defines the word "khimar" in the following words, "Khumur is the plural of khimar which means something that covers, and is what is used to cover the head. This is what is known among the people as a khimar". A modern scholar, Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid says, "Khimar comes from the word khamr, the root meaning of which is to cover. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Khammiru aaniyatakum (cover your vessels).' Everything that covers something else is called its khimar. But in common usage khimar has come to be used as a name for the garment with which a woman covers her head; in some cases this does not go against the linguistic meaning of khimar. Some of the fuqaha have defined it as that which covers the head, the temples and the neck. The difference between the hijab and the khimar is that the hijab is something which covers all of a woman’s body, whilst the khimar in general is something with which a woman covers her head".
3) Imam Abu Abdullah Qurtubi describes the historical circumstances relating to the wearing of the khimar in pre-Islamic Arabia as follows, "Women in those days used to cover their heads with the khimar, throwing its ends upon their backs. This left the neck and the upper part of the chest bare, along with the ears, in the manner of the Christians. Then Allah commanded them to cover those parts with the khimar". Similarly, Imam Abu'l-Fida ibn Kathir reports, "'Draw their khumur to cover their bosoms' means that they should wear the khimar in such a way that they cover their chests so that they will be different from the women of the jahiliyyah who did not do that but would pass in front of men with their chests uncovered and with their necks, forelocks, hair and earrings uncovered". Both of these descriptions provide clear, explicit, specific explanations of what "extend their khimars to cover their bosoms" means.
4) The scholars have agreed unanimously that the khimar is a HEADCOVERING.
Source(s):
Now the translations by Muhammad Asad and Ahmed Ali it is referred to as a head-covering and veil, respectively.
In Muhammad Asad's commentary, he writes, "The noun khimar (of which khumur is the plural) denotes the head-covering customarily used by Arabian women before and after the advent of Islam. According to most of the classical commentators, it was worn in pre-Islamic times more or less as an ornament and was let down loosely over the wearer's back;..."
Is there any occurance of the word khimar (or khumur) in Classical Arabic lexicons, or other works, including the Hadiths of Bukhari, Muslim, etc... where it is defined as other than a head-covering when referring to an article of clothing worn by a woman?
It's clear that Khimar means a covering, which can be a shirt, jacket, tablecloth, etc.
From Lane:
Kha-Miim-Ra = cover/conceal/veil, become changed/altered from a former state/condition, mixed/mingled/incorporated/blended, intoxication/wine/grapes, make-up, any intoxicating thing that clouds/obscures the intellect, come upon secretly/unexpectedly, crowding of people, odour of perfume, women's head cover, man's turban, something fermented/matured?
Lane gives examples of the dwelling was hidden by the trees & the concealed his testimony.
Its primary signification is 'to cover'.
As far as I can tell, to say 'khumur' in 24:31 means 'head cover' is an extrapolation. If one takes its core meaning, it simply means 'cover/veil'.
...and let them draw/set/cast (walyadribna) their veils/covers (bikhumurihinna) over (AAala) their breasts/bosom (juyoobihinna)... [24:31]
Kha-Miim-Ra is in the plural in this verse. Khimar means a covering, which can be a shirt, jacket, tablecloth, etc.
Now let's continue to touch on these points about the Khimar and all in the Qur'an Allah says,
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and God is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their zeenah (charms, or beauty and ornaments) except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimar (veils) over their bosoms and not display their zeenah except to their husbands, their fathers .... and that they should not strike their feet so as to draw attention to their hidden zeenah (ornaments)." (24:31-32)
(outer garments) (when in public); this will be more conducive to their being recognized (as decent women) and not harassed. But God is indeed oft-forgiving, most merciful. (33:59)O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should draw over themselves their
And know that women advanced in years, who no longer feel any sexual desire incur no sin if they discard their thiyab (outer garments), provided they do not aim at a showy display of their zeenah (charms or beauty). But it is better for them to abstain (from this); and God is all-hearing, all-knowing. (24:60)
The ayats above are the only verses which address the issue of clothing so specifically. Clearly, the basic principle is that of modesty. However, it is clear that the inclusion of a head covering is derived from interpretation of the word khimar in 24:31. Most translators and commentators who all support Hadith/Sunnah books outside of the Qur'an agree that this was a loose scarf worn at the time of the Prophet which covered a woman’s head, neck and possibly shoulders, leaving the rest exposed and they say that women were ordered to use the khimar to cover their breasts.
Yet, because of this understanding of the khimar as a head-covering which is only an interpretation explains why Muslims who follow Hadith/Sunnah books outside of the Qur'an believe that the Qur’an tells women to cover their hair. As I mentioned before the injunction, however, regardingcovering the hair in addition to everything else is implied, not specified in the Qur’an.
If you study the Qur'an you'll see that the Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (24:31), but the Arabic words for
Head, (Raas), or Hair, (Shaar) is missing? It's clear that the commandment in the ayat is - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars who translates the Qur'an so it basically can accomodate Hadith/Sunnah books outside of the Qur'an and this makes most of the translators infer or imply believing that is ayat is telling women to cover their head or hair.
Allah doesn't run out of words and if Allah wanted women to cover their Head, (Raas), or Hair, (Shaar) there would be such a verse as clear as day.
In addition, the ayat tells women not to display one’s zeenah except to husbands, fathers, sons, etc. except "what naturally appears thereof". Most scholars writing on the subject consider awoman’s chest, hips, legs, neck (basically her whole body) as zeenah, which should thus be covered.
Yet, as mentioned above, the Qur’an itself reveals that, in different settings, the word may have different implications; also, the (perhaps intentional) lack of specificity in defining zeenah may actually allow for differing interpretations based on a variety of circumstances.
the Muslims who follow Hadith/Sunnah books written over 250 years after the death of the Prophet say that the exact determination as to what naturally or ordinarily appears is left unclear. yet others say that the face is also part of a woman’s beauty and should be covered. Again, when referring to (illa ma zahara minha) to be limited to theNow the traditional interpretation considers the phrase
<-----Hadith/Sunnah booksThey believe that Allah’s words are fables without man’s assistance ---->
However, the Qur’aan says that it itself is the best Hadith (Al Qur’aan 39:23) and Allah says that the Qur’aan is COMPLETE, PERFECT, FULLY DETAILED AND IT EXPLAINS ALL THINGS (Al Qur’aan 6:114-115; 16:89: 6:38; 12:111).
I also believe that it is very possible that many classical lexicons will refer to khumur as a headcover solely because of a biased interpretation of the Quran. In other words, they are ?Islamic? lexicons which define khumur as headcover in order to justify the wearing of the headscarf according to 24:31.
You may be interested to know that even Tafsir Ibn Kathir states "khimar" does not mean a head cover.
If you look at Ibn Kathir he himself says that Khimar does not mean head cover then he contradicts himself, i.e. says it means head cover, then cites a hadith in which Aisha understood it as a waist sheet cover, i,e. any cover.
As I understand it the Arabic word "KHuMuR" in 24:31 is a plural noun that comes from the root word of "KHaMaRa" which means, "to cover." Basically this word is used for any cover, not exclusively for headscarves.
In, Lisan-ul Arab, states that the word was even used for rugs and carpets, since they cover the floor. The sin-gular form of the same word "KHaMR," has been used for intoxicants, which "cover"the mind (5:90). In verse 24:31, God advises female Muslims to maintain their chastity and put their covers on their chests (Bosoms), not their Head, (Raas), heads!
Another thing is the Arabic word "fel yedribne = they shall put, they shall cover" is clearly in is ayat but if KHuMuR meant Head, (Raas), head cover, the verb, "fel yudnine = they shall lengthen," reference Surah 33:59 would be more suitable.
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